Rich Cardona Media

149. How College Athletes Can Now Monetize Their Brand with Kristi Dosh

On this episode of The Leadership Locker, Rich talks with writer and personal branding expert Kristi Dosh about the NCAA’s new policy that allows student athletes to monetize their brand. Listen in as Rich and Kristi discuss how this new policy affects student athletes, colleges, and small businesses.

Kristi Dosh is a professional writer, speaker, sports business analyst, attorney and author who founded Guide My Brand in 2015, a boutique publicity firm representing entrepreneurs and authors. As a sports business reporter/analyst, she has reported on everything from collective bargaining to endorsements to the finances of pro and intercollegiate athletics for outlets such as ESPN, Forbes, Golf Digest, SportsBusiness Journal, Campus Insiders, Bleacher Report, SB Nation, The Motley Fool, Comcast Sports Southeast and more. Kristi is also a consultant with College Sports Solutions, a collegiate athletics consulting firm.

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Personal Branding | Rich Cardona Media

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  • 00:19 – Introduction
  • 05:27 – NCAA and the new NIL policy
  • 08:24 – How the new policy affects student athletes
  • 10:14 – How the new policy affects colleges and NCAA
  • 12:58 – How the new policy may affect small businesses
  • 14:53 – Athletes and personal branding
  • 20:26 – The pressure for student athletes to monetize their brand
  • 23:42 – The types of content student athletes can create
  • 26:48 – Why students need to careful when monetizing their brand
  • 31:04 – How businesses should approach student athletes
  • 36:10 – Big deals and current trends
  • 41:01 – The potential distraction of student athletes monetizing their brands
  • 43:20 – Where to find Kristi online
  • 44:23 – Rich’s closing remarks

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Influencer by Brittany Hennessy

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How to connect with Kristi:

Website

LinkedIn

Twitter

Facebook

Instagram

Pinterest

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Connect with Rich:

Website

LinkedIn

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

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Rocket Station

brooks@rocketstation.com

Transcript
Speaker:

And welcome back to The Leadership Locker.

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It's your host Rich Cardona and look, you're in the right place.

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Yes, you are.

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You're in the right place.

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If you're an aspiring entrepreneur, if you're new to entrepreneurship, if you're

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seasoned, if you're just in the middle of it and are just like, what am I doing?

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Uh, the purpose of the leadership locker is to get you small business

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owners and veteran entrepreneurs, the knowledge you need.

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Okay.

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Part of that's going to be from me on Mondays and Fridays, kind of documenting

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the journey and sharing things.

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I've learned along the way in my early years on, I have so far to go.

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So it's, it's going to be timeless, but I also.

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And industry experts and influencers like my guest today, Kristi dosh

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is a corporate attorney, turned to national sports business analyst.

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She's also a personal branding consultant writer, speaker.

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I mean, you name it.

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Um, but she is a contributor, regular contributor to Forbes.

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She's worked with ESPN, ESPN, the magazine, et cetera, et cetera.

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Now what she has been at the forefront of is what's called.

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Of ruling that happened on, um, July 1st, which is N I L, which

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is name, image, and likeness.

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Okay.

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This is specifically for collegiate athletes who are now able to monetize

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on essentially their personal brand college sports will never be the same.

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Now, many of you listeners may have known about this already, but it's time to

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dig in a little bit and determine, okay, like, how does this benefit the athlete?

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Because sometimes it's not as sexy as.

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How does it benefit a business?

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Does it mean anything for the school?

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How do you get a deal?

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Do you need a social media following?

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What are college athletes looking to focus on now that this is available to them?

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So we do that, but look, here's the funny thing, Christie

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is exactly what I wanted to.

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I wanted to, before I realized I was not going to be effective in any way, shape

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or form, you know, as a college student, I knew I needed to join the Marine Corps.

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I wanted to be a lawyer.

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And if it, if I didn't want to be a lawyer, I wanted to

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be abroad, cast journalists, like a Bob Costas, so to speak.

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And that's what I wanted, but I was too busy, fucking off center.

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So it did not come to fruition later during my Marine Corps career, I tried to

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apply for a law program and it turns out I had too much time combined find time

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as an enlisted Marine and as a commission to officer to apply for this program, it

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was just it's, it's, it's a really kind of niche program, which obviously meant

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really strange restrictions as well.

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So I didn't get to do this.

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And I was like really big into supporting Florida state at the

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time and all these other things.

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And here I am talking to a corporate attorney business analyst and

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then the business sports and look, you're going to hear, but she wrote

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her way out of being a lawyer.

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She wasn't doing sports law or entertainment, law or anything like that.

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Uh, you'll hear what kind of law she was doing, but she wrote her way out.

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And I don't think she was seeking to do it.

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It just kind of happened.

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She tapped into her creativity, which is one of the messages I always want

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to make sure I put out there whatever special skills that you have that you

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think only you need to know about, and that are just specific to you.

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And that no one would give a shit.

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Are actually things that can open up different doors to your life,

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to your career, to your pazazz for living life to the fullest.

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She wrote her way out through a blog, and then she left law.

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And now here she is.

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Advising athletic departments across the country showing up regularly on

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TV and on radio as a contributor and writing and just staying on top of it.

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She is at the forefront of this NISL ruling amongst other things.

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So look, it's amazing to talk to someone, although she did go to university.

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I mean, I went to Florida state.

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I'm really, really happy we got along, but it's fascinating to talk

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to someone who kind of went for a job that seemed like it would be kind of

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job that you do the rest of your life.

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She made a huge pivot.

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Now she's doing exactly what she wants to do, and there's not a single pause in her

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voice to any of the questions I asked.

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She doesn't have to think.

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You don't have to think deeply when you're an expert because you are immersed.

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So, not only is she a good example of how we can learn about supporting

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collegiate athletes or how collegiate athletes get supported by businesses,

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but she's also a fantastic example of what we talk about on leadership locker

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a lot, which is those transitions, how act two is in fact about you.

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So let's get to the.

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Here's Christie.

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All right, everyone.

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Thanks for joining.

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Uh, you heard the intro.

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I'm really, really excited to have my guests and Kristi.

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Thanks for joining.

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She went to USF for law school and I went to Florida state and that didn't

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ruffle any feathers in the beginning, but Chrissy, thanks for coming.

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Thanks for having me, you know, it's funny.

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I grew up in Atlanta, so I consider university of Georgia a much bigger

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writeable than Florida state.

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So we'll get along just fine.

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Yeah.

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That's funny.

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I'm reading a unscripted right now by Ernie Johnson.

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I'm trying to interview him.

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I think he's in Atlanta, but, um, Christie.

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I wanted to talk about something.

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I feel like it's been a month, but it hasn't even been two weeks since

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college sports have changed forever.

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As of July 1st, I was hoping you could kind of just give a breakdown

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for the audience on what took place.

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And then we'll dig in a little bit more.

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Oh, yeah, it's been a long two weeks.

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Um, so the interesting thing about what happened is that this all

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started with state legislation.

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California was the first state to pass its own name, image, and likeness legislation.

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And that sort of started the snowball rolling down the hill.

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Then you started to have other states pass it, or at least propose legislation.

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Um, and that forced the NCAA to start talking about what their

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legislation might look like.

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And so.

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Myself and other media members and folks in college athletics who followed this

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for the last year and a half all expected that there would be NCAA legislation.

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By the time this came to fruition, California had given the NCAA

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a really long time to do it.

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Uh, however Florida came in, I lived down in Florida and Florida came in

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And basically put the NCAA on the clock.

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They've got one year to figure this out.

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For an organization that big moves that slow was a really short time period.

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However, we all expected, they were going to pass legislation back in

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January, it was on their agenda.

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I knew people who were on that committee who had no indication

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that anything was going to go wrong.

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Except that it did because the department of justice sent the

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NCAA a letter basically saying that they had some concerns about it.

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And so the NCAA put it on hold and we were about 18 hours out from the

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July 1st start date going into effect.

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When the NCAA finally gave us something.

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They had a Supreme court ruling handed down to them the previous week.

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And it was very bad for the NCAA.

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It was unanimous against them, in fact, which is rare for the Supreme court, if

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you follow Supreme court cases at all.

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So the NCAA basically gave three or four really broad guidelines and

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said, you know what, if you live in a state that has a state law.

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Follow the state law.

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If you live in a state that doesn't have one, then as institutions, each

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university can pass its own rules.

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Well, that gives schools by the time that came out, schools have less

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than 24 hours to come up with rules.

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There are still schools now, you know, half a month in that don't have

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policies yet because they needed to confer with attorneys and they wanted

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to see what other schools were doing.

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You've got all these state start dates that are at different times.

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So some people have a state law, but it hasn't gone into effect yet.

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And so what's ended up happening is you've got these really broad NCAA rules.

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You have some state laws that have already started, and then you have

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this mishmash of institutional rules.

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And so I think it's most complicated for brands that want to work with

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student athletes, because they've got to check like, you know, it feels

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like 10 different places to figure out what they're allowed to do or not.

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I feel like it's, it's, it's like if you see someone really attractive

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at a bar and you're like, I'm just going to shoot my shot and you

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go up to them and they say, yeah.

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And then you're like, yeah, I'll talk to you.

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Or, yeah, like, here's my number.

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Like, you don't know what to do.

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So everyone was kind of paralyzed by the small turnaround window.

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They had now name, image, and like this, what does that actually mean?

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So, so what exactly took place?

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And then more importantly, what does that mean for the business of college, which

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is obviously what you're an expert in, and then obviously what does it mean for us?

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So student athletes previously couldn't profit off their name, image or likeness.

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So they're really practical applications of that work.

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They couldn't charge to autograph something.

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They couldn't sell their game used gear, and we've seen guys get

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in trouble for that in the past.

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They couldn't get paid to do a social media post, even if it

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had nothing to do with sports.

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Um, they essentially couldn't make money doing anything other than.

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Qualified internship or job.

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Uh, they couldn't use any skills, podcasting, blogging, you know, they

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couldn't do any of that to make money.

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The NCAA made waivers available.

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If you were doing something that truly wasn't connected to your

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profile as a student athlete.

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So there are student athletes over the years who published books.

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Put out music albums even started businesses, but they weren't

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allowed to reference that they were a student athlete at all.

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And so, you know, they deleted these kinds of separate lives that they were

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going to do that kind of stuff in the waiver process, I think could be difficult

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to navigate and take a little while.

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So for the most part, most student athletes just haven't

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done anything with it until now.

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And now all those possibilities are open to them.

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They can get paid for appearances and autographs.

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They can take free meals and free swag and you know, all these things

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they haven't been allowed to do.

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Uh, and they dove right into it.

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People were announcing deals like one minute into July 1st.

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It was unbelievable.

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So, so what does this mean?

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For college businesses, like for the NCAA, they look like the Goliath, right?

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Defeated almost kind of by the David and a lot of professional athletes from

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listening to you when I heard you on.

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And a lot of other people are obviously very supportive and some obviously

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wish it could be retroactive, but for the most part, a lot of them are just

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like, finally, you know, they're happy that student athletes are now going to

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be able to monetize on their images.

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But what does this mean for the NCAA?

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Does this take money out of their pocket?

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And this is just me asking out of pure ignorance, like, is this bad for football,

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that institution as a whole or not football, but college athletics or is it.

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It depends on who you ask my opinion on it is it doesn't have any real

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effect, in my opinion, at the NCAA level, however, it could have an effect

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at the individual institution level.

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And we've already seen some comments around that your schools were fearing

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that if a local brand decided to work directly with student athletes, that

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maybe they would pull funding, they already had with the athletic department.

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So.

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A banner up in the basketball arena, but now they decide they're going

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to use marketing money to work directly with the student athlete.

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Will they still pay for that banner in the basketball arena?

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And there was a lot of fear around college athletics that that might happen.

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And we hear about how much money March madness makes or the

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college football playoffs makes.

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But when you get outside of the power five institutions and those five

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top football conferences, schools at other levels, Are not operating

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with this huge surplus of cash.

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You know, losing a signed sponsor in the basketball arena could be a really big

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deal to them and their ability to sponsor sports because generally speaking, only

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football and men's basketball make money.

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It is incredibly rare for any other sport to be in the black.

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Every other sport loses money in order to pay for scholarships for student athletes

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and coaching and medical care and, you know, busing them and flying them to

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their events and all that kind of stuff.

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And so that was a real concern.

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And we've already seen at university of Miami where a booster who owns

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MMA gyms decided to offer a deal to every scholarship football player.

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There's 90 this year, because roster limits are a little higher.

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Some guys got took an extra year because of the pandemic.

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Someone asked him in the media, because you're doing this, does this

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mean you're no longer going to spend money with the athletic department?

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And he basically said, maybe not.

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It's kind of a wait and see thing.

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He's going to test this out and see how it goes.

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And so that concern that some people sort of criticized institutions

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for, I think is a real concern.

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Especially when you get outside of the power five to those athletic

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departments, they're really, depending on some of that sponsorship.

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Now, staying with the topic of being outside the power of five.

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If I'm here in Wilmington, North Carolina and UNC w businesses as support, whichever

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program, any sports program, and it doesn't need to be basketball or any,

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it could be soccer, it could be fencing.

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Who knows.

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What, what kind of opportunities does this afford?

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Small businesses.

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And how does that appeal potentially to the college?

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There's all these studies that show how effective social media marketing

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is when you work with influencers.

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I use that lightly.

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You know, these student athletes don't have to have a hundred thousand followers.

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You know, it's all about having the right followers, uh, you know, having

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that niche that a brand is looking for.

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In fact, I heard a story last week that that was really good at compliance.

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Officer told me that they had two deals come in from an outside company.

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Icon source open doors influencer.

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These are all companies that have sort of partnered with schools or offer

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marketplaces for student athletes.

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And it's compliance.

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Officer got two deals in one was for student athlete who had, I

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think around 8,000 followers.

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And the other was a student who had a hundred thousand followers.

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And the one with 8,000 followers got a much bigger deal.

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Then the one on the a hundred thousand dollars to the compliance guys

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flagged it because he doesn't know that much about influencer marketing.

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And he just knew it looked fishy.

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So he contacted the company and he said, what's the deal?

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Like, why is this happening?

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And they said, because this company came to us and they said they wanted a

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student athlete who was an avid hunter and like had photos of himself hunting.

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On his Instagram and they used algorithms and AI software.

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They had to identify the student athlete with 8,000 followers who

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like his entire feed was hunting and that's what the brand was looking for.

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And so, because he had this niche audience, he was the perfect fit for them.

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And so that's what I think is so cool.

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There's opportunities for student athletes, for things that have

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nothing to do with their sport and totally regardless of their following.

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So here's one thing I've been thinking about.

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And I've been talking to my wife was a collegiate athlete at west point.

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And we were in the car listening to some of these things.

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And I said, does this mean if you are a formidable athlete and have a good

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social media following that if you are not performing to your fullest potential

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that you're going to sit a little bit more okay with that, because now you've

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actually monetize on something that could be longstanding and you've built business

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acumen that you might not have otherwise.

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An interesting thing.

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I've learned.

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I speak a lot in athletic departments and over the years, I've talked a

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lot to student athletes about life after graduation and, uh, using social

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media to kind of build a personal brand that allows them to get into

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the career field they want to get in.

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Now, those conversations are kind of looked a little different with the

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thing I have heard over and over and over from student athletes is that

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as they're graduating, they feel less confident than their peers because

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they haven't necessarily been doing.

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Or working during the summer in their chosen field.

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And they look at their classmates who aren't student athletes, and they

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look at the experiences they had.

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And these do not things really questioned their ability to get a job in their

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chosen field after graduation, because they just don't feel like they have

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those hard skills, great soft skills in terms of leadership and time

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management and that kind of stuff.

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But what I think is really cool about NISL is if you want to learn how to

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do a podcast, if you want to learn how to blog, you want to be a better.

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Speaker, you know, you want to learn hard skills and content creation and personal.

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Now you get to what I had planned to talk to student athletes about moving

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forward is how do you use this opportunity to build something that you can take

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with you beyond graduation, whether that's becoming an entrepreneur when you

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graduate, or if it's just skills that get you into that job, you want to be.

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It's a really awesome opportunity.

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I agree wholeheartedly.

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And, and the part I think about is I've know, some directors of player development

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at some professional sports teams.

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And one thing that seems that has resurfaced in, in some of these

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interactions is, you know, not everyone is ready to leave their professional sport.

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Uh, nine times out of 10, you have to leave prematurely.

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You're, you're injured, you're tired, family, whatever.

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And all of a sudden it's like, okay, what am I going to do?

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And some of those skills have not materialized despite potentially having

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good managers or anything like that.

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So to me, the development of a business acumen and especially a personal

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brand, which obviously you and I live in that space is tremendous.

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And I think it's really, really exciting.

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And, and I, I think it's an intangible that would not have existed.

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Had this not been.

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So that being said, I want to talk about a couple of things in terms of the

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fact that it's sports, this now kind of changes things in another regard as well.

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So what if there's a chess team and I, and I say this, cause I was

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just watching the Queen's gambit.

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Right.

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And I was just like, oh wow.

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You know, like if she was in college, like this opens opportunity for

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people that are kind of laterally involved in athletics as well.

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Is that true?

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And what does it mean for the spillover, for people who are not

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necessarily football players, but maybe doing something a little bit.

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Sexy, so to speak.

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Well, one cool thing we've seen pop up is that a lot of athletic departments

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are partnering with business schools or entrepreneurship centers on campus.

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In fact, I just had a call with Arizona state yesterday about how their

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entrepreneurship center is going to get involved with helping student athletes.

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But what we've seen is a lot of curriculum pop-up and classes that are

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going to be offered this fall that are offered for the entire student body.

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But they came about because of this need to help student

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athletes monetize their NFL.

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So I think that's a really neat thing.

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I didn't necessarily expect in it.

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Let's get back to the show.

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So I want to talk a little.

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More about personal branding.

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That is my entire purpose is to, and I think your LinkedIn headline

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is, well, ours are kind of similar.

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Mine is it's not who, you know, it's who knows you.

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So, so we really are big on making sure that it's not necessarily the connections

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or your performance or anything like that, but like, people need to know

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what you're doing while you're doing it.

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And potentially why, you know, you're an expert.

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That, that being said, when it comes to personal branding, I have this

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kind of underlying fear that there's going to be pressure on all these

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people, all of a sudden to be like, well, now I have an opportunity.

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Now I have to get on social.

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I am at no name state.

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I'm not going professional.

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It's not happening.

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So now I have all this pressure, but can you talk, have you seen any of that?

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These, this kind of like turmoil a little bit now I have to do something

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and I wasn't necessarily involved in podcasting social media or anything.

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There definitely is.

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I have a community of female student athletes that I've been trying to help.

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And they all feel like this opportunity came.

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I have to take advantage of it.

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And how do I do that?

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And they don't necessarily have something they have already built up or that

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they were super interested in doing.

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But what I've loved from that is I had them all fill out a little

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questionnaire with what they wanted to learn more about, and I thought

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it would be more about social media.

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That's the low hanging fruit and all these early deals we've seen have

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largely been based around social media.

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And so I thought they'd see that.

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And not that I necessarily think that's the path they should go, but

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that that's where they'd want to be.

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And overwhelmingly that is not what they're putting

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on the form overwhelmingly.

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They are putting blogging, podcasting and public speaking, which I think

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is awesome because I can talk about those things all day long.

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Those things have allowed me to go down a totally different path.

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I was a corporate attorney who was just blogging on the side a hundred

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percent for fun, just as like a creative writing sort of exercise.

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Um, podcasting, wasn't a thing back then, but I have a podcast now.

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Um, but I changed my careers through blogging, which is

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like crazy to think about.

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I've been blogging for 17 years.

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Wow.

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Book deals.

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It's changed the course of my career.

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It's opened all these doors for me.

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And so I'm really excited that they want to learn about these things, but most of

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them are starting totally flat-footed.

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They have nothing right now.

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And so the first conversations I'm having with them are here's what

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the time commitments look like.

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Like I've done all these things and if you really want to build something that

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you can monetize, you know, here's the time commitment you have to put in.

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That that doesn't need some of them out, but I want to be honest about it.

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I don't want them to think, you know, I'm sure in the entrepreneurship

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world, you see this too.

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I get so annoyed with the ads that pop up in my Facebook feed that are like, you

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know, take this 30 day course, then, you know, have a $10,000 a month next month.

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Like that's not how my entrepreneurial journey started.

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I don't know about you predatory.

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It's awful.

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Yeah.

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I see that all the time.

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Yeah.

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I started a new blog last year.

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I have one that's 10 years old that makes money, but I started a new

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one last year and I've told them exactly how I tried to monetize it.

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And that I've made like a hundred dollars in a year.

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However, you know, I've been working on my SEO and here's my long-term plan

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because I want them to understand this.

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Isn't something you jump in and start making money next week.

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Um, and so that has weeded some of them out, but others are

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super excited to get started.

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Now there's a parallel here.

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If you are, you know, part of the veteran entrepreneur, our audience, listening

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to this, or if you're someone who's making a career pivot or change, uh, what

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Christy's saying is really important, there is going to be that reluctance

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to say, well, I don't have expertise.

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I mean, if you're a college athlete, like, are, are you going

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to talk about leadership per se?

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Maybe, maybe not.

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Are you someone on the bench?

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Uh, who's going to talk about.

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Basketball and teach basketball videos or anything along those lines.

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So it could be very difficult and it could look like an uphill battle.

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Now, Christy, what would you say to this audience is collective audience it's

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about, Hey, I'm not exactly sure what I should talk about, but I do have an

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interest in tapping into my creativity and I understand that I may or may not

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monetize off of it at some point, but this is just to get people to invest

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in themselves in their personal brands.

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What would you say is a good start?

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Yeah.

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You know, I've worked for some beginning kind of entrepreneurs in my PR agency.

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And I always ask them, you know, what are those things that you find people

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asking you advice about all the time or things you just find yourself?

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You know, in the beginning I found myself like getting the same questions

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over email all the time from students.

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And I got to where I had these like formulated responses basically.

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Cause I found myself saying the same stuff over and over and over and over.

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Um, and most people when you start digging in on that, they'll say, oh yeah, My

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family is always making me, asking me to make these custom book covers for

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them, or, you know, people are always asking me about, I don't know, being

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diabetic, you know, random stuff, but when you really start digging in, people

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usually have something that, you know, I hate to use the word passion, cause

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I think it gets overused, but people usually have something that they are sort

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of, I call it an expert on their own.

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There's something you've been through something you've done.

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And that's how we coach our PR clients is everybody is an

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expert on their own experience.

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So let's dig in and figure it out.

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How did you get where you are now?

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What do you like or not like about it?

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And where are you hoping to go?

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What things do you want out of the future?

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Do you want a job that allows you to work from home and travel when you want, or is

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it really important for you to work with children or, you know, whatever your thing

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is, and people usually have that stuff.

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If you dig in and ask the right questions, they it's hard to identify it.

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Super easy for somebody else to see.

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In fact, when I was an attorney, I sat at a luncheon one day at the Atlanta Braves

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stadium and there's 7 55 club and it was a sports and entertainment law thing.

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Um, I did not practice in sports and entertainment law.

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I was actually in commercial real estate and did corporate work, but I went to

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the CLS cause they were more interesting on the sports side and this guy.

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To me, I'm telling him about my blog.

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And I think at that point I maybe had my first book deal and he was

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like, why are you still practicing?

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What is wrong with you?

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You know, he's done in a year from now.

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If I meet you and you're not working in sports, I'm going to

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be really disappointed in you.

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And I remember thinking this guy was like totally wacko because I was a corporate

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attorney making really good money.

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The work I did, uh, well enough and I never considered, I was going to

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change my career and do something else, but he was right within a year.

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I got a job offer from ESPN and I went to be a sports business reporter.

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And that's not something I ever saw for myself, but he knew it from talking to me.

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I get it.

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I mean, you can be someone in college right now and just be

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like, make videos, endless videos of applying for scholarships.

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Like something like that is interesting to someone or a parents who are in

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high school who are going to stay up all night, trying to win money for

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their kids for college, so to speak.

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So I always kind of look at the beginning of something you learned in an

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experience, and that's obviously a good content material, but I agree with you.

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It's exactly right.

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And I'm.

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You know, very, what's the word serendipitous that you

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had that interaction and, and decided to kind of make a leap.

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Now in your last podcast, you talked about making deals in the DM.

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So now we're going to kind of get back to NISL and working with brands.

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This could be equally confusing for both sides of the house because

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brands are not exactly sure what they can and can't do so to speak.

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And then athletes are probably going to be incredibly enticed by someone saying,

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Hey, and I think, and I think the example you used in the podcast, Someone was

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offered a hundred dollars per Instagram post or something along those lines.

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And that seemed like, wow, awesome.

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And next thing you know, there there's 12 renditions and things aren't ironed out.

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How should deals be made and how should potential student athletes kind of

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look around and validate whether this is going to be something good or bad?

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I think that's tough because they're going to be all these do not lead to are

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going to get offers from small businesses and from people through DMS who the

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deal's not going to be big enough for an agent or an attorney to get involved.

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Like everybody keeps saying, at least in my kind of world, oh,

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you know, it's do not that they'll be protected because now they're

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allowed to hire agents and attorneys.

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We get offered a hundred bucks for one social media posts.

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It would cost more to hire an attorney.

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Most people who are in compliance at universities, first of all, like this

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is not necessarily their skillset.

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They don't know anything about this world.

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In fact, I keep getting asked to come in and speak in athletic

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departments to try and teach.

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People about this, you know, they're not used to getting DMS, you know,

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offering them deals with, you know, some fashion brand that wants to

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send them a bunch of free clothes and a hundred bucks for a post.

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So not only are they not familiar with it, but a lot of them feel like there is a

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line they're not allowed to cross in terms of advising student athletes, because

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the way some of the rules are worded.

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The state laws are institutional rules.

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There's this institutional involvement sort of issue where you don't want to

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lead a student athlete astray and open up the athletic department to liability

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or look like you're playing favorites with one student athlete over another.

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And so they're really hesitant to give advice.

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Where are these student athletes going to get advice, which is part of why I

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have started this community specifically for female student athletes, because

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I wanted them to have somewhere to ask questions and get feedback

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on what is, and isn't appropriate.

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I recommend everybody that is going to get involved in this from the social

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media perspective, to read a book called influencer by Brittany Hennessy.

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She works on the brand side for years, hiring influencers, and she talks in

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there about, um, Things like etiquette and like how to work well with a brand, but

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she also has a really good chapter that talks about deal terms you need to know.

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And I think it's important for student athletes to understand that

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a lot of these small businesses that are going to approach them are

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so small that they don't have an attorney they're consulting either.

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And they don't necessarily have a contract drawn up.

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I mean, a lot of what I see influencers outside of student athletes, but

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like women in their 20 somethings that I'm in some groups with.

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Well, a lot of what I see is they're getting these offers by DM.

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And the whole thing just happens as a back and forth in your DMS, which

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is fine by most state laws that back and forth forms of contract.

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But you have to know the questions to ask or that beings to determine.

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Yeah.

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I don't think most student athletes have any idea what those things are.

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And the example you mentioned was a woman.

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I saw it in a Facebook group.

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I'm in full of influencers who got offered a hundred bucks a post.

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She thought that was amazing for the number of followers she had.

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And she was so excited to finally make money, except then the brand.

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Well, different times asking for revisions.

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And so then when she looked at the amount of time she spent creating the post,

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doing the sort of photo shoot for what she was going to put in her feed and then

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making all these edits and reshooting.

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Then the a hundred dollars didn't sound so good anymore because it was a lot of work.

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And I don't think most people would know that.

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Yeah.

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I mean like, well, this is the thing.

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So that's where the business acumen, you know, the, the learning comes into play.

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Cause then it almost, it's almost like B2B at that point, right.

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Where you can be like, here's how many revisions you.

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You know, if we're going to do this deal, here's how many

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revisions, here's a turnaround time.

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Here's a deliverable like period point blank.

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It's just so funny to me because I'm kind of seeing in this whole process

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that the people you would expect with the leverage don't necessarily have it.

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Uh, you know, it's just, it's really interesting.

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Now I want to kind of role play this with you because let's, I'm a

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small business, rich Cardona media.

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Great.

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I want to set up a podcast with the number one athlete in the

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Southern North Carolina area.

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Okay.

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And I see Christie, who's a star volleyball player at wherever university

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and I approach you, how should businesses go about talking to student athletes

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and actually, what is the benefit?

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And I'm not talking, you know, you're supporting them as an Alma

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mater, you know, or as an alum, I just see something in you.

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I support you.

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What should I be doing as a business?

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And how should I approach the people I want to.

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So I think you got to check and see if there's a state law in effect,

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because some of them have some quirkier things than others do.

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And then I think you have to see that the institution already has an NRL

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policy in place, which many of them do at this point, um, and make sure

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that you understand the parameters they're allowed to work in most of the

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time, it's probably going to be okay.

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There are some categories of these policies for things like tobacco, alcohol.

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Well, we've seen some CBD, but they don't all have it.

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Um, the state of Pennsylvania has something about, uh, pharmaceuticals,

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but no other state has that.

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So it differs from place to place.

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But I would check the state law, the institutional rules.

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And then I think you got to have an idea of, you know, what you're asking, you

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know, how long is the podcast going to be?

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How are you going to use it or reuse it?

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Like, are you going to be allowed to.

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Take this after we film it and cut it up into little pieces and use it for

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your own promo, which, you know, like I would think would be totally fine.

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But you got to think through all those things, because the questions

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I'm telling student athletes to ask is, you know, how much is it?

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Um, if it's something I've got to put in my feed, how long

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does it have to stay here?

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You know, are we talking about feed, post a story?

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You know, do you get to see my post before I put it up?

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And if so, how many rounds of edits are allowed?

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And then how are you allowed to use this content we've created together?

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Because that might change the price.

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Like one example I saw in an influencer group I was in was that this woman

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had done a feed post on Instagram.

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And then she found out later that the brand was using it as an Instagram ad.

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And so they were sort of getting more value out of it and she felt like

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maybe she should have gotten more.

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Then she found out they were using it in a lot of printed marketing materials.

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So once she realized the scale of their use was far beyond just this one post that

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was supposed to go in her feed, she felt like she probably under-priced herself.

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Athletes, ask those questions, make sure that if you're going to own

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this content I'm creating with you, what are you allowed to do with it

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in the future in terms of editing it?

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Because I always give this example that was on a season of the

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bachelor bachelor, bachelorette ban.

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And there was a young woman that was on there and photos came out

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of her while she was on the show.

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Where it looked like she had supported a clothing brand that

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had a lot of Confederate flag paraphernalia in their photo shoots.

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And her contention was that when they shot the photos.

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None of that was there, that it was all added in post editing.

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And so I've been telling student athletes, you've got to know what rights the brand

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has to reuse this content and to edit it.

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And whether they have to get your approval on those edits, because they can add

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anything to the photo or video or audio or whatever you're doing with them.

Speaker:

It's student athletes, we're risking their eligibility.

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You know, it's not you the podcaster or you, the brand who's ultimately

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going to get in trouble here.

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It's the student athlete who could lose the rest of their student athlete.

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One mistake in this arena.

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So I think it's important for them to ask those kinds of questions, but as

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a brand, I think if you want to get involved in this and you care about the

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student athlete that you're wanting to work with, I think as a brand, you should

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be educated about all these things.

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And if they're not asking you the right questions, Maybe provide them

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a little education and say, you know, you didn't mention edits, but we

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should figure out what that looks like.

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You know, kind of coach them along the way, because quite frankly, a lot of

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them aren't getting any coaching anywhere and they don't know the things to ask.

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You mentioned the hunting piece earlier, the hunter that was

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sponsored, which is incredible.

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I believe it's important for a small business to take into account that

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maybe there is a particular athlete that you are a fan of, or that is a

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high performer, but you have to probably ask yourself as a small business.

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Does this even make sense for them?

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Like, do they use our product?

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Do they care about our price?

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If we are selling print paper and this person has ever talked about

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it, it probably doesn't make sense to approach them with a deal, uh, which

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is also something for the athletes to consider, because anything that

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comes in is going to seem enticing in the beginning, but it should probably

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align with some of your values.

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The last thing I want to talk about.

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What you've seen.

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And I know you've been trying to keep up ridiculously and, and I, and I don't NVU

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for all the constant changes that are coming in the questions, but add also

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you're at the beginning of it, which is great because you are just going to

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really, really be the expert, but what are some of the biggest, biggest things?

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And I know a couple of that happened right after midnight on the first,

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but what have you seen, uh, and w what kind of trends are you.

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So the absolute biggest has been masterpiece sign, which, you know, it

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seems a little unfair to compare it to all the other student athletes, obviously no

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offense to him, but he didn't, his son did not get this based on his own merit alone.

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He's an incoming freshmen.

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So he hasn't even played a game yet at the college level, he got a $2

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million deal from a tech company.

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So put that one aside.

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Where's he going to school in the new Orleans?

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I'm assuming.

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Tennessee.

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And I think it's Tennessee state, but unbelievable.

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Uh, celebrity father totally different category.

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Um, on the first day, I think the biggest deal we saw was from college hunks,

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hauling junk out of south Florida.

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I think that was a $20,000 deal off the top of my head.

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And we've actually seen them signed several more student athletes.

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Now they really seem to be going all in on this, but they've always

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had that sort of brand alignment.

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Hunky college students who are, you know, serving as representatives of

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their company or actually serving as the labor for their company.

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So it was a really natural fit, I think for them, the Miami deal that I

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mentioned earlier, where we had an MMA gym make an offer to the entire team.

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We are starting to see a couple of team-wide deals.

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I think I saw another one at UCF for maybe women's basketball.

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I know it wasn't the ball or men's basketball.

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Um, there are so many now that they all blend in my head, but we

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started to see a few team wide deals.

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Now, you know, what has been most surprising to me is the

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number of student athletes who.

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Have a platform already.

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So they're the starting quarterback where they've got a big following and they

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are using their platform to sort of pull other people from their team with them.

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So I just saw one yesterday where a quarterback made a deal with a local

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restaurant to feed his offensive line every single week, all season.

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That's amazing.

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Such a cool way to like give back to your teammates.

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Uh, and also heard that when FSU is quarterback did an appearance on, I think

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it was the very first day of NISL that he could have taken that deal by himself.

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They made the offer to just him.

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And he said, actually, I want it that same money.

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I want to take it and split it between me and my team brought

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two other guys with him.

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That same quarterback, the FSU quarterback, you know, you'll love

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this because you're an FSU grad, but that FSU quarterback and then the Miami

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quarterback, they teamed up together as they knew this was going to happen.

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And they've been working for that.

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I think the last year on a platform called dream field, where they created

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the platform on which other student athletes can sign up and make brand deals.

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Uh, there was another student athlete at the NAI level.

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They've passed their Anya legislation back in October.

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So they had a headstart on the NCAA.

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And a female volleyball player started a company called playbooks.

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It seems sort of thing like a platform for other student athletes to come

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on and make these brand deals.

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And so what I've loved seeing is how many student athletes are using their

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smarts or their leverage, their platform.

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To help other student athletes.

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Cause all we heard leading up to this was how it was going to create

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all this division and locker rooms.

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And you know, guys were gonna be jealous of other guys and I'm sure there will

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still be some of that in is human nature to be jealous and to compare yourself

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to the deals other people are getting.

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But I am blown away by how many student athletes have gone out

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of their way to make sure things happen for other student athletes.

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It's the coolest thing about this whole thing.

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Yeah, that kind of unity is incredible.

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And probably really indicates that, you know, people were

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really ready for this moment.

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You know, it had been such a long time where you could do nothing and

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it could completely tarnish or destroy your potential career or get your

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Heisman taken away or whatever it is.

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And then there you go.

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So I love that one thing that you said that I cannot help, but think

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about when you mentioned the Miami deal and I forgot to ask you, sir.

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If this individual is providing monthly, whatever, a hundred bucks a

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month per student, 500 bucks, these scholarship athletes and Miami goes

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in this year and they do horribly.

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Uh, let's just say they punt it.

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And then this guy's talking to whoever and say, look like

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next year, doesn't look good.

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And to $500 to a student that.

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That could be sizable, you know, I mean, it could be really sizeable versus nothing

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they could opt in for an entire year.

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So it's $500 a month for an entire year.

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So they already sort of know they have this guaranteed money.

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Exactly.

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So what happens then to the psyche of an athlete or a coach who knows that

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these people's lives are slightly improved by this financial vehicle?

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And now all of a sudden the threat is getting, you know, we're

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going to pull because you guys are just blowing it this year.

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And the point I'm getting at is the distraction of this.

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I talked to several coaches before this all went live and they

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were worried about that sort of competition in the locker room thing.

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I talked about a minute ago and then worried about the distraction too.

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Uh, you know, a lot of the school rules we've seen come out say that

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you can't be creating content.

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On campus, like in the locker room or in the football stadium, you know,

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they don't want them using that sort of as part of their platform or part

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of their, uh, appeal to brands because they don't want that distraction.

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And we've seen coaches in the past ban teams from using Twitter during the

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season or whatever, and that hasn't gone over really well like that.

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That's gotten a lot of media attention and a lot of hate for

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keeping them off of social media.

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But, you know, I do think that.

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They're going to have to learn how to manage their time better.

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I mean, I talked to a former college hockey player who was like, if

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this had been around, when I was there, I would have wanted to do it.

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Cause I would've wanted to make money.

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He was like, but I have no idea how this would have fit in my schedule.

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I had no free time.

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So something's going to have to give, but what is that thing?

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Is it sleep?

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Is it attending class?

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Is it playing video games, you know, in your dorm room, is it,

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you know, extra practice, time or extra time in the weight room?

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You know, that's going to differ for every student athlete.

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Uh, but I do think there's some coaches who are a little cranky about it, at

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least privately, if not publicly who, when a guy's underperforming, but

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they see him in his Instagram stories, talking something like every other

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day, they're probably just sit down, have a conversation with them about.

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It's so funny you say that I was listening.

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I don't know something on ESPN and there's a basketball player talking

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about, like from beginning to end.

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Oh the day, like I hardly have time to even eat, to recover, to think.

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And then I have to go to see my tutor on the weekends and do this

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and do that and make sure I'm meeting all my educational requirements.

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So, you know, just the excitement of having something new, which is

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a potential, you know, monetary.

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Thing our vehicle is, is it's going to be hard to avert your eyes if you're in a

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position to cash in on that, so to speak.

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So, um, the last thing I wanted to say was, uh, where can people find

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out about you and, and you know, your books and where would you like them to.

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Yeah.

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So I do most of my work in this college sports space on

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business, a college sports.com.

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That's got the podcast, it has tons of trackers for NFL.

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There's a state tracker, there's a marketplace kind of database.

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There's an institutional policy trackers.

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If you're a brand looking to work with student athletes, hopefully

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you combined a lot of what you need on my site, under those trackers.

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And then I've got kind of the latest, big news happening, uh, either written

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stories or podcast episodes there.

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And I'm on.

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Meijer's a social media platforms at sports biz MIS in my SS.

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Yes.

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Well, thank you so much.

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I, I hope, um, if you're listening, I hope you not only understand the perspective

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of the athlete, but also the business.

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Uh, we have an expert here who shared some fantastic information, so make sure you

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follow her and we will see you next time.

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Thanks for being on the show.

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Thanks for having.

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All right, everybody.

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I really hope you enjoyed Kristy.

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Please check her out, please.

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If you're listening and you were a small business owner or a medium-sized

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business owner, and you are a complete supporter of your collegiate team

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volleyball team football team, soccer team, whatever it may be.

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Follow her material, follow her because it may mean you having the opportunity

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to support at a very high level for that player or those players that are

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part of your life in one way or not.

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Last thing I'll say is, look, she's a podcast or she's a blogger.

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Uh, we are on parallel paths, different industries, so to speak.

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But one thing that she and I rely on, uh, as podcasters is ratings and reviews.

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So if you got anything from this, if you learn something new, then

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if you learn something new leave review, damn, I got to start using.

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Well, yeah, if you got anything from this, if you got any value,

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if you got any benefit, if someone else can benefit, share it.

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But if you got anything, please take the time to rate and review it.

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And then lastly, as a personal branding consultant, Christy,

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and I both have resources.

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If you have no idea where to get started DMS, uh, or go to rich Cardona, media.com

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backslash personal branding, you will find a guide for 29 freaking dollars.

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That will probably change.

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Everything for you.

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If you have no idea where to begin, and if you have no idea where to begin,

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and if you're just completely baffled at how to even cultivate the content

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you're going to need for your personal brand, I solve all that for you with the