Rich Cardona Media

147. How to Land Podcast Guests – Part 2

On this episode of The Leadership Locker, Rich discusses some more strategies that he uses to book high-profile guests on the show.

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Personal Branding | Rich Cardona Media

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Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness by Tim Grover

Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil Knight

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Connect with Rich:

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Facebook

Transcript
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And welcome back to the leadership locker today is going to be part two

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of how to land great podcast guests.

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I felt like I needed to give a little bit more information.

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I got a lot of DMS, really good, positive feedback, but there were still some

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things that I feel like I was missing.

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Number one, I'm your host Richard Cardona.

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The purpose of this show is if you're a new entrepreneur and aspiring entrepreneur

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and experienced entrepreneur is to get you the knowledge you need for your journey.

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Okay.

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Whether you've been through the problems, whether you're going to go through those

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problems or you're going through it.

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Now, the industry experts I have on here, come from all.

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Walks of life and we teach you on negotiating on sales, on marketing, on

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mindset, on pivoting, on transitions in life, whatever it may be.

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That's why I have them on a Mondays and Fridays, like today, Friday,

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it's where I share something I have learned, or I just kind of document

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the journey and tell you some things that I'm going through and that I

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picked up, uh, that might be a value.

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So as, you know, if any of this is useful to you, please share it.

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That's how this podcast continues to grow.

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And I'm really, really thrilled with how it's been performing as well.

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So, let me kind of back up, uh, let me back up to the beginning.

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Why I even started a podcast in the first place, and by the way,

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the leadership blocker, this is the third podcast that I've had.

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And that just kind of shows you, you know, that that change is almost inevitable

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and that whatever you think you want to do, or whatever podcasts you want

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to come up with or whatever title you have or whatever format or whatever

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reason you're doing, it can change.

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And mine had no purpose in the variables.

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I had just got back from vid summit in Los Angeles.

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I was on a high from all the speakers and all the people in meeting Gary V and, you

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know, meeting some, uh, new creatives.

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I was new in the creative world, so to speak, I mean, look like at this

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point I was maybe a month and a half removed from quitting a job at Amazon.

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I was completely out on my own.

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I was living with my in-laws.

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So I got back from a vid summit, no spending money

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went to vid summit, got back.

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And I was like, okay.

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Document the journey's time, but I didn't really have a purpose for the podcast.

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I didn't know what I was going to do.

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I didn't have, in my opinion expertise that I was going to be able to deliver.

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And I really, no matter how much I thought documenting the journey was

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important, I've had no fucking belief that anyone was going to give it.

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Now I look back and I'm like, damn, I could have marketed it.

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Then I could have done so much better.

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I mean, I'm a 38 year old living with his in-laws in BFE Virginia.

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This is excellent content.

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But, uh, I guess I'll do some of that now.

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So I started the podcast on some shitty refurbish iMac that I had,

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and I was operating this podcast.

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How of a very back storage room of my father-in-law's.

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Kind of office building thing is not even that it's like a garage and there

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just happened to be this back room.

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Now he is an entrepreneur, but he's an entrepreneur in a very, very small

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place that he's had a retail stores.

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He's had all these little things, but dude, my father-in-law's an amazing man.

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He's also Mr.

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Frugal.

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And I actually offered if he'd pay me because I was now out of a job.

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By choice.

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I was like, I could digitize all these files for you.

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Cause he had file cabinets upon file captains upon file cabinets.

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And he's like rich, I'm a, I'm a paper guy and I'm like, fucking, okay.

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So I would just kind of go to this back room to operate now this storage,

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the reason I mentioned that it was a storage facility, like, you know, kind

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of like the normal ones that you see.

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Was this back room was full of all the random shit that he got

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out of units when he had to empty them when people didn't pay.

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Hey, so there's like fucking dolls, stuffed animals of freaking

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weird, outdated furniture.

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Kids' toys, just all kinds of random Ash.

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And here I am setting up, uh, you know, my refurbished iMac.

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I had a, I don't even remember what microphone I had and all I thought

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to myself was that, and I was, I just joined a first in line with Gary V, which

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was one of his Facebook groups, which pretty quickly became overwhelming, but

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meeting some of the new people in Los Angeles and wanting to be a creative

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and wanting to get to know people.

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My podcast was called the bubble wrap podcast.

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The bubble wrap podcast.

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And that's because I wanted to unwrap people, which I do still.

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But I said to my wife, I was like, think about it when you open a box and you

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know, there's something precious inside, you know, you open it and it's wrapped in

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bubble wrap, so it doesn't get messed up.

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Like I, I still, I mean, if I could find the logo, you're going to laugh.

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That shit is so fucking awful.

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I started interviewing people from first in line with Gary V who commented on

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posts or who made content or whatever.

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So I found someone who, and it's actually did really, really well, uh, on YouTube,

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but it was an interview with a woman who lost her husband and ended up, um, you

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know, starting a kind of cannabis shop.

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Uh, she's a non-user and, uh, and it was in Canada and I don't know, and

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in a way we went and then I did one with another woman named Ashley who

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teaches knitting and she's young, and she's trying to make knitting cool

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knit, like a bad-ass and show you how it can be mentally stimulating

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and all these things about knitting.

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So the bubble wrap podcast went on and it was just super.

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Fucking random.

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I had no strategy, but I will say this, I enjoyed it.

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I really did enjoy it.

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I, I started learning like, wow, this is a process.

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I started kind of making cover art, so to speak for the episodes on YouTube.

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I mean, I was just all over the place.

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Just trying new things.

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Okay.

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So I'm trying to teach myself how to podcast.

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I'm trying to pitch to Claude silver, that I wanted to make content for her and be

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her personal vlogger person like D rock.

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I mean, I'm all over the place and I look back and it's, it's, it's hilarious.

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But it was a really great time just kind of learning.

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So yeah, podcasts ended.

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I started another one called flashpoint, which I thought was a little bit more my,

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because flashpoint is a aviation term.

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It's, uh, the temperature at which fuel will combust.

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And I kind of was getting closer to what I wanted is a flashpoint was about.

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Um, a time in people's lives, where there was a flashpoint, something that changed

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their life forever, whether it allowed them to, um, you know, start over or start

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a business or to heal or to, I have no idea, you know, what is the flashpoint?

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Okay.

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What was your life like before then?

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There was a flashpoint.

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And then what happened after.

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Um, and then some of those interviews, I was able to get

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people like Shaleen Johnson.

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I was in her marketing impact academy.

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I wrote them and they're like, all right, come on out.

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So I flew out, I mean, dude, I've been doing this crazy

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non ROI stuff for quite a bit.

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Okay.

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But here's what I could tell you, despite me not knowing exactly what

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I wanted to do, I was still doing it.

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And I was improving every time.

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And I mean, shit led so funny.

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I mentioned Shelly.

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She was like, correcting me.

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She's like your GoPro's not blinking.

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So it's probably not recording.

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I'm like, oh, I think it is.

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And she's like, no, I don't think so.

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And like the sound was off.

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The camera was off her mic.

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I fucked up.

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I mean, I flew out there to Alisa VA VAO orange county and I still screwed it up.

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And the footage and the sound is awful, but I still got that experience.

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And here we are a couple of years later and I was actually a professor, a LinkedIn

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professor for her marketing impact academy this year, which is fantastic.

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But, I mean, I still had the balls to gun to just put myself

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out there and do a podcast.

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So everyone out there who this isn't a about, uh, starting a

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podcast, this is about getting great guests, but all the excuses you

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have for not starting a podcast.

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I think the first question you need to ask yourself besides like, you

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know, what should the title be?

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What's the format going to be?

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Just the number one question you have to ask yourself is, am I being lazy?

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That's the first question you have to ask yourself, because if you're

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anticipating all the effort, that's going to go in it or are you actually

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looking at it and not anticipating all the effort that's going to go in it.

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You're going to be exposed.

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You're going to expose yourself to how lazy you actually are.

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So the title and all these things are, are all made up.

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Self-inflicted barriers that actually don't prevent you from pressing record

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on a podcast or doing a solo one.

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You literally could record on your phone and do it.

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So.

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Flashpoint went well, but I wasn't tracking data.

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I didn't know what I was doing still.

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I just really wanted to interview people.

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That's all I knew was I wanted to interview people.

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I wanted to hear their stories, uh, all that.

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So September, this year will be two years.

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I started the leadership locker.

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It was going to be specifically for veterans.

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Uh, and now it's obviously evolved into for any entrepreneurs

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for small business owners.

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But the overwhelming there's a, there's a large portion of veterans

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who want to start their own businesses.

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Um, about 25% is a number from, uh, about a year or two ago

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who want to, but only 2% do.

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So I was like, cool, I want to change.

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I'll document the journey and I'll just interview a lot of experts.

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Um, and then I started reaching out to people.

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Now at this point had been pretty active on LinkedIn and I was pretty

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much only reaching out to people on LinkedIn and, and great people at that.

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David Bryer Shay robot.

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Um, if you know her, uh, Mary Henderson, who's on there, uh, just, just,

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you know, just a bunch of fantastic people, but I, at least now had my

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purpose, which is I wanted to really help entrepreneurs and people who.

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In the same position I was, or five steps behind me, just get the answers to the

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questions that I was having or that I was enduring and all the things that people

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don't know about, you know, again like negotiations and sales and marketing and

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funnels and legal shit and cashflow and accounting and branding and all of it.

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Like it never stopped.

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So I knew I was never going to run out of content and I was never going

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to run out of potential guests now.

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Had Gary V on, I had a preexisting relationship with Gary V since

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I had met him a couple of times.

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And then I had obviously made content for Claude, which I know he was

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fond of and all this other stuff.

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So he was a really fantastic guest.

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And at some point around episode 50 something, I was

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just kind of like, fuck this.

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Like I was on Libsyn.

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I didn't see the numbers moving.

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I didn't know.

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I wasn't intentional about how I was going to try and garner an audience.

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I was always disappointed, no matter how much I posted about the

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podcast, nothing was happening.

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You know, actually the worst part was the fact that I had some really

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fantastic guests and I'm like, even that didn't move the needle.

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So then I started to discover that.

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I was moving the needle once I kind of resurfaced and really, really

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made a commitment to podcasts more often, I'll tell you one change

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I made, which is the quantity.

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Instead of one a week, I went to two a week and then I went to three week and

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then things really started to take off.

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And what really started to happen was, you know, people started listening

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to the episodes of have me sing a narrative episodes just like this.

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And those started to do really, really well.

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So then I was like, well, now I got to build audience.

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Now I got to actually pay for a little bit of advertising to kind

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of get this out to new people.

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And now I really need to start leveraging my ability to get great guests.

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It's already covered in now that was a long, long, long preamble.

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But look, it goes right into this.

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I knew I was fearless about reaching out to people I knew on Saturdays.

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I'd go on to Twitter and see where some of these influencers that were

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usually not reachable would be early Saturday morning and I'd send them a

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message or I'd comment on their posts.

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Like, oh, I love that opinion, by the way.

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I'd love to have you on the podcast.

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And then they're like, damn.

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Yeah.

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I mean little things like that.

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I was never afraid to reach out.

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Now I covered in the first episode or part one of this, you know, you

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could do DMS and you could do a video.

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You could do a voice message.

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Uh, you could email, then you could interview the people around

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them, which is I'm telling you.

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That's the biggest, biggest one interview people they've interviewed

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who maybe are not as hard.

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Interview them, then they could vouch for you if you're a good

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interviewer and all these other things.

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But what I did not cover was aside from the subject line of

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the email was what you're actually going to put in this message.

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So I wrote down a couple of things.

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You're going to put down something that positions you in what I hope.

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You're thinking, something that positions you in a way to give them value.

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So for mine, I did not have download numbers.

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I did not have a massive social media following, but I knew my

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audience was mostly military.

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And I knew the purpose of my show was for veteran entrepreneurs like myself.

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So some of my body, if I got a response, especially what I would write was

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something along the lines of, I would love to get you in front of a military

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audience or veteran entrepreneur audience.

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This is why I'm doing this podcast.

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This is how I think you could help.

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I would be honored if you considered it.

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So that was something that was me trying to add value.

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Okay.

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So it became less about me and more about them being able to help a segment

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that maybe they don't tap into often.

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Not all is Jocko, for example, like is his, is his audience military?

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Yeah, no shit.

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Kinzer hall storyteller.

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Veterans in her little circle.

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Probably not.

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So it depends.

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You have to be kind of a chameleon and determine who needs what?

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So, number one is paint the picture.

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Okay.

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Paint the picture that you want to add value by giving

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them exposure to your audience.

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Now here's something that might happen, whether it's them you're talking to, or

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whether it is one of their gatekeepers.

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I've had this question come up before.

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What are your downloads?

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Do you have at least this, how many episodes do you have?

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Sometimes people will ask you how many episodes you have to determine if

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you're consistent, because if you're not consistent, they don't give a shit.

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Some people are like, you got to have a hundred episodes.

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Some people were like, you need to have 250,000 total downloads.

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Some people were like, you need 10,000 downloads a month.

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People want to know that you're consistent.

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Otherwise it potentially might be a waste of time.

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Now, again, The more consistent you are.

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And the more you do this, the more, the perceived value of being on your

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podcast will be, you know, don't put yourself in this weird place where

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you're like, why wouldn't they do it?

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Don't ask why wouldn't they do it?

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They don't have the time.

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You're the one who needs something from them, whatever reasons or criteria

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they have is completely fucking valid.

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So just leave that alone.

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Okay.

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Think of what you can do.

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So here's another thing you could think about.

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Do they have a book coming out?

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Do they have a movie coming out?

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Did you see them in an article recently where they on the news recently?

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If someone has a book coming out and I'm going to have him on the podcast,

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but Tim Grover, for example, I read winning after I heard him for the first

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time on Andy Frisella his podcast, uh, on relay F but then I watched the

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last dance and I was like, holy shit.

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I forgot.

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I didn't realize that was the same guy.

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The last dance is a documentary about the Chicago boy.

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Well, I've read that book.

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I was floored.

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I read 44 pages the first day.

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Okay.

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And I'm doing 75 hard.

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All I needed to read was 10.

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So that should tell you something, him and the book I'm about to finish today.

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Shoe dog by Phil Knight are just like, holy shit.

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But how can I add value?

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I would love to help your book become a bestseller.

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It probably was going to be a bestseller.

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Anyway, I think it already is a New York times bestseller, but at that point,

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you know, maybe he'll take what he could get is a very common for people

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to do a podcast circuit when they release a book because they want all

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the exposure they could possibly get.

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Now, whether your audience is bigger, not might not actually matter.

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What might matter is that you're willing to promote this person to your audience.

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So keep that in mind.

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Can you help?

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Another way you could add value is if you know, they have an editing team, or

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if you have people who edit your videos for you, and it's a video podcast, or if

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not, I guess it really doesn't matter.

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But if you have people who create content for you to promote your podcast, and you

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will be able to add that as something of value to them as well, right?

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And I do this.

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It's like, we're going to make at least five clips for you that are formatted

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for Instagram reels or YouTube shorts.

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We'll also have one podcast promo, and we'll also have, we'll make

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sure you get the raw file so you can do whatever you want with it.

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And we'll also make sure you get the raw audio so you can

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do whatever you want with it.

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Not only are you going to give them content out of it.

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Okay.

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So it's done.

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You could give them the Rawls in case they want it done their way.

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Now, if you really want to fucking go above and beyond and impress the

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shit out of them, if you look at their style and the way they make content

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and make content for them from the interview with using their kind of

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brand, that'll probably knock them dead.

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And that's a sacrifice because then you're going to, you're not

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going to brand it for your brand.

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You're going to brand it for them.

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So that's a value add.

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So keep that in mind and then.

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You know, as far as adding value, that's that, that is the name of the game.

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Anything that's going to be pitch like a pitch and telling them just a three

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paragraphs, all these different things.

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You have to imagine.

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Some of these people probably get approached hundreds of times a day, or

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at a minimum hundreds of times a week.

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And you have to get creative, listen to part one, to figure

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out ways to reach these people.

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But this is a little bit more about what you'll say now, we're

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talking about what you don't.

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Okay, so you don't just write, Hey, I'm a big fan or, Hey, I love your

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work or your book this, I mean, it doesn't fucking matter, man.

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Like there's thousands that are millions of people who already

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think that about this person.

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You can not write a paragraph and you cannot waste time by doing that.

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So very first line should never, ever be about you.

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Okay.

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It should never be about you and should not be what you can get out of it.

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Let's just say a movie's coming out.

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What's a movie, let's say Carla Joann's and black widow came out.

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Okay.

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You have an awesome subject line.

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Black widow blows up the leadership locker.

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You know, something like that, who knows?

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And then, um, I want to write her or her agent, uh, the first line.

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Isn't going to be about me.

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Like, Hey, my name is rich.

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I'm a retired Marine.

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Uh, the first line should be something along the lines of business.

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Owners can learn a lot from a black widow.

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What the hell does that mean?

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Does the first sentence, make them read the second sentence and then get into it?

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Okay.

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The last couple of launch would be something along the lines and I'm talking.

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This should only be two to four paragraphs.

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Max would be like, if interested, please let me know the person to talk to.

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You don't want to pitch until you have a little bit of traction.

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Okay.

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I understand the inclination to want to write a whole fuck ton of shit

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and really kind of sell them, but you're not going to win by pitching.

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Okay.

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You're going to win by what I said, which is demonstrating value.

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You're going to win by all the things I mentioned in part one, and you're

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going to win by putting them first.

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Because you're the one who's asking for some of their time.

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Now let's just say you get a response and they're like, not at this time, you

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know, or more slowing down on podcasts, then here's a couple things you can do.

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You could, right.

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I completely understand for a guest like this, I'm willing

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to wait as long as it takes.

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That does two things.

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It shows your patient as soon as you're not heard about it, but it

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also shows and gives the signal that you're going to be persistent.

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And trust me, there's a couple of very, very big names that

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I've had to be persistent with.

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And I know it's just a matter of time before it happens, but the fact that I've

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been persistent over 18 years, Always gives me the advantage over anyone.

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Who's just asking for the first time who might be in a similar

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position or have similar download statuses as I do or rankings as I do.

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So the fact that I've been persistent, the fact that I built relationships,

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the fact that I've talked to people around them, the fact that I've

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followed up politely matters.

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Okay.

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So if you get the response that not now or anything like that, you don't have to

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be pushy about it, just make it known that you completely understand and also make

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it known that you're going to follow up next quarter, or if it's the summer and

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be like, I'll follow up in the late fall or whatever it may be in the meantime.

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Is there anything I could do for you?

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That sounds nuts.

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That sounds nuts.

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Is there anything I can do for you?

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Of course, you're going to say no, but again, you're positioning yourself as

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someone who's looking at, making sure that you add value and that it's not just

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about, you know, Um, if someone says, uh, potentially, and then they start

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asking you for criteria and you don't meet that criteria, there's a couple

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of things you could do there as well.

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One is when I hit these downloads or when I hit this milestone, I will be in touch.

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And I hope that you can get so-and-so helped me get so-and-so on the podcast,

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or if it's a person themselves, just be like, and then we could do it.

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And then just say something like deal question.

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And then if you come back, there'll be like, holy shit.

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There'll be able to reference that email, reference, that DM reference that message

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and be like, wow, the person did the work.

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They really want me on.

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And then just forget about me.

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Um, last thing is, this is if you get a response and they put you

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on hold or say, I'm not sure or anything like that, it just, you just

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have to be completely understand.

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Uh, just think of all the times that people want your time

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and you're not a celebrity.

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You're not someone who's getting asked to be on podcasts all the time.

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You're someone who's getting asked a million different things from your

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kids, you know, who are competing for your attention with work and

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who are competing your attention with a movie you want to watch.

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And all these things, everyone has people that are competing for their

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attention and you are no different.

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So the best thing you can do is be completely empathetic.

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And just continue on now, if they don't, if they just straight up say

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no, then you can grow your podcast.

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I hope you grow your podcast and reach out again later and be like the last time I

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talked to you, here's what we were doing.

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Here's what we're doing now.

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I really do think that so-and-so would be incredible in front

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of this specific audience.

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And here's why, and then you could go into that, but, uh, don't fight it.

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Don't ask, what can I do?

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Uh, unless this person on the other end is very personable.

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Just be like, okay, if you don't have the criteria and you want the

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criteria, then that's when you ask me, like, okay, what would it take

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to get so-and-so on the podcast?

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And then that's.

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That's basically it, uh, I'm I've who knows.

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I mean, maybe there's a part three at some point, but part one is

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going to cover again, how are you going to reach out to these people?

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Why you should reach out to these people, why you shouldn't

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be fearful of doing that.

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And in this episode we covered what you going to actually say in the body, what

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you're actually going to say in the message and what you're going to say.

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If you actually get a reply.

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So I really hope that helps, uh, just remember that consistency and

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being persistent actually catches attention more than, you know, and I

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really hope that you are able to use some of these and gland some of the

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guests that you really, really want.

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Now, look, I'd love to have Oprah on my podcast.

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I actually think Lewis Howes would love to have Oprah on his podcast.

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There's some people that just don't really go on podcasts.

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So that's the last thing I'll say, which I don't know.

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I just now thought about it.

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Check to see if this person is ever on podcasts, go to their LinkedIn,

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go to their Instagram and be like, are they ever on podcasts?

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Because maybe that's just not their thing.

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If they don't go on podcasts and they say yes to you, it's because

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there's some real deep commonplace.

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Meaning we're both from Morristown, New Jersey.

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We both played football at Randolph and we both went to Florida state and

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we both have a passion for veterans or something along those lines.

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Like I'm talking, you know, you just have this very incredibly unique and match.

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Probably an anomaly and this person really doesn't appear.

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Maybe at that point, they'll do it.

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They might not do a video podcast.

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Maybe they'll just do a regular podcast.

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Oh, sorry.

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Last thing.

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Fuck.

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I can't even believe I thought about that.

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People are going to ask how long it is.

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People are going to ask how long it is.

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So if you think you're going to get an hour with someone

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who's insane, then you're wrong.

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I I've been very fortunate.

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I've had that happen to me a couple of times, but say something along

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the lines of the entire process will take no longer than 30 minutes.

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Unless they tell you otherwise, if they ask, say 30 minutes,

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think of what you're doing here.

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You are trying to say you will be done in 30 minutes, and that also puts a

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pressure on you in a good way to just have everything you need done and

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consolidated in a 30 minute window.

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Okay.

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You are not asking an extraordinary amount of their time.

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30 minutes is very doable and you're not just making the assumption that

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they're going to just carve out an hour of a day for someone who's

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starting growing or, um, you know, just building on top of a great podcast.

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Okay.

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Be respectful.

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Anticipate as little as you can get.

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And maybe like it's happened to me so many times.

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They're just like, dude, let's keep going.

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And I'm like, fuck.

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Yes.

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Now I think we're done.

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Thank you.

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Please write me and let me know if there's something I add.

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Just frighten me with any questions.

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You might have DME on Instagram, rich Cardona, underscore or LinkedIn.

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And if you are interested in podcast production services, uh, then feel free

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to email us@infoatrichcardonamedia.com, um, where we do full podcast production

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services to the point where literally you will be set up to record you record you,

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send it to us, and we do all the rest.

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Everything.

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Everything I'm telling you.

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I just told you a lot of my little journey here and podcasting is not fucking easy.

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It's a lot more work than people think.

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And for big people with who are influencers are massively

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successful, who have podcasts.

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They usually have a team like a completely full-time team.

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Who's ready to the video at any time.

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Who's cutting clips at any time who's engineering audio at

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any time, you don't have that.

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Probably.

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And if you do, then you should be using it.

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If you don't or you want to at least outsource part of it at a price,

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that's completely reasonable by someone N whose team me, who has a ranking

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podcast, who's, who's pushed through, you know, all the walls of it and has

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found success has found sponsorship has found purpose has found great.

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Guests has found just an undying passion for it.

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Then where are your people?

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Okay.

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There's a lot of people out there who produce podcasts, but you

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better check their podcast out and see how their podcast is doing.

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All right.

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Check out how their podcast is doing, because that's always a sign

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it's like having a personal trainer who's completely out of shape.

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You're like, Hmm, not sure.

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So, uh, we can do it.

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We have a small agile, mobile team who delivers with Marine, like precision.

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So thank you for your time.

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Please rate and review this.

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If you liked it, share it with a friend.

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That's how we grow it.

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Uh, we were in the top 100 again for business and education.

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Because of you.

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So those reviews are a signal to people that if they haven't been following

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that they should, and they're going to get some good content out of him.

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So thank you, uh, super long, but I had to do it and I appreciate you guys.